30: 5 Steps to a Better Life with Sean King

Steve Coughran: 0:00

Here are the five things. Here's the foundation. If you want to stay sober, if you want to heal, if you want to recover, you have to do them. You skip step three you relapse. You skip step two, you relapse. This is the Addiction Recovery Podcast with Steven T Ginsburg, founder of Restore Detox Centers in sunny California. Enjoy your experience All right. Today we have a really special guest. His name is Sean King. Sean, I'm so glad that you're on the podcast and that you get to join me and Steven for this conversation. We always like to keep it real, so I'm glad we're here together and I'm going to just jump in by asking you some questions, because I want to hear about your story and I want the audience to hear about your story as well, because it's pretty remarkable. Welcome, Sean.

Sean King: 0:47

Absolutely, steve. Thank you so much, and I'm very happy to be here with you guys.

Steve Coughran: 0:51

And you know what's cool about this is you've known Steven for over 25 years now, so I can ask you questions and we can vet out Steven on the show as well.

Steven Ginsburg: 1:02

Yes, you can get the real good dirt.

Sean King: 1:06

One of his going things is you know, if you want, if you want to good stories on me, man, just go and ask Sean.

Steve Coughran: 1:09

So yeah, here we go, we got because, yeah, normally the audience they just they get to hear like the edited version of talking to steven like the the pretty saint saint steven ginsburg yeah, he's got the real deal on it we got the dirt.

Steve Coughran: 1:23

So, everybody, you're in for a real ride here on this episode. We're going to. We're going to keep it really raw. So, sean, so back in the day you're working with Steven in the timeshare business. That's where you, you, met. You've known each other for 25 years. You've also had a wild ride, I'm sure, in your life, you know, with drugs and alcohol. Maybe you can give us just the high level version of like what's your story, and then I'm going to ask you a lot more questions as we go along the way.

Sean King: 1:48

Yeah, sure, you know my. My story starts back and I was born and raised in Northern California and I know I've told this story, obviously with Steven before and in Sonoma County, sonoma Valley, which is, you know, where I was raised is wine country and so I was, which is, you know, where I was raised is wine country and so I was, you know I had a different take on alcohol growing up and it was nothing as I was growing up as a kid, for you know my dad to put down two, three bottles of wine a night with dinner and you know my mom never drank, but my dad was definitely a heavy drinker.

Sean King: 2:18

But no one would have known that. I wouldn't have thought that at the time or any time growing up, all my friends' parents drank. I mean, wine was just a part of our life. It was a part of our parents' life.

Sean King: 2:30

I mean vineyards were in our backyards, and so, you know, I started drinking at a very young age. My parents allowed me to drink. Their whole goal was just to keep me at home and not out partying and getting in car accidents and doing stuff that was going to get me in big trouble, right. So I started out like that and went through you know, all the normal stuff that kids go through. Thinking that was normal in Northern California, I went to college at North Sonoma State University and you know, I decided I was going to move down to Southern California and on my 21st birthday this is where everything kind of came together I packed up and decided I was going to move to Huntington Beach and I met a gentleman by the name of Kevin McNicholas and he had been working for Steven at the time. And lo and behold, you know we, we had hit it off the first night that I came down and we were chatting. He's like dude, you got to come and check out this deal I'm doing down here. And I was young man, I was out of college, I didn't really know what in the world I wanted to do with my life, and so it's funny because I packed up and I said, OK, I went and interviewed over at Stephen's Deal with this gentleman named Andy that was working for me at the time Great guy and you know he hired me right on the spot. So the move started and began, and I'll never forget.

Sean King: 3:36

I packed up and I moved down to Huntington Beach, and Huntington Beach is a heavy drinking, heavy drinking town and as I'm sure you probably know.

Sean King: 3:48

And so I was entering into a town of where everything I knew and then many, many more things I was willing to learn, were sitting there on the horizon and and you know it was a funny, funny running joke I was 21 years old and, and every time we'd go out to the bars I'd I'd be looking for the wine list, you know know, to order a glass of wine at 21. And it was an enjoyable start to my life. But you know that was 21 and I'm almost 42 now. So over the last it'll be a course entry here shortly that I've been really hitting it very, very hard and it's gone through a lot of different segues to ending up where I ended up when I first, you know, went into Restore in November of 2021. And we can kind of move to that on your schedule however you see fit, but ask me whatever you'd like, man. It's been a long and heavy drinking career for sure, and now recently been a nice recovery career.

Steve Coughran: 4:43

Okay, well, well, let me ask you this, sean. So you started drinking early? What? What age were you? Just for context, you know, I first started drinking.

Sean King: 4:50

I was 13 when I first picked up an alcoholic beverage and then I never really turned back. I loved it, man, when I first, when I first drank. I drank I'll never forget it peach schnapps and I. I got sick drunk the first time I ever drank, and for whatever, I thought that was the best thing ever. So I kept the party rolling and so, yeah, that was the beginning. It was early beginnings.

Steve Coughran: 5:11

So I mean the first time you drank, I mean you're, you're like I love this, I'm in love with it, because I've talked to Steven before you know about his whole journey and it was kind of similar. It's like, yeah, the first time I smoked pot or I drank or did this, it felt good. I felt like, okay, yeah, I'm in the zone I found myself, or whatever you want to say For me. I remember the first time I drank wine. I think I snuck it out of my sister's boyfriend's fridge and it was disgusting. I drank it and I was like, oh my gosh, that tastes terrible. Now I don't know what kind of wine I was drinking, but it was horrible. But nonetheless I was like, yeah, that's terrible, I'll never do it again. And then it's like I did it again. I did it again. So at what point did you start falling in love with it? Maybe it was love at first sight, but and then talk about, okay, when did you realize this is a problem? This is something I can get in a lot of trouble with.

Sean King: 6:08

So all great questions. When I first took that first drink, I was with my older cousin. You know they were taking me out to parties when I had first taken that first drink and had that first hangover. I don't remember it being like, oh man, this is the greatest thing ever. Don't remember it being like, oh man, this is the greatest thing ever.

Sean King: 6:25

I do remember, however, that starting the party scene in terms of me getting hooked on going out and, you know, making friendships and partying and meeting new people and just that environment and that lifestyle at a very young age and you know, at the time I don't feel like I was going out searching for something I didn't have at home or or any of that. But you know, as time progressed and as I progressed into my partying, you know I started smoking cigarettes when I was 15. So then I was smoking and drinking and it all just seems so normal. I didn't have, you know, one thing, I didn't have that a lot of that I hear a lot more from other people that they had was I didn't have parents that were yelling at me.

Sean King: 7:05

You know, listen, you can't drink here. You can't, you shouldn't smoke. So I didn't have any of that. I you know my parents were were just chill, relaxed about all of it, and I really just never knew at that age where I should have known that I was doing something. You know that was not the best thing to get started with at that age and you know this is at the time where, when I was, when I went into high school, they still had smoking sections. If you were a senior, you were able to go and smoke in the smoking section at my high school, which just means that everybody else went and smoked there too, and and you know it was those little things in my town that were just I found out later weren't necessarily normal around. You know all other parts, but by the time I got to college I was already. You know I hadn't had a fake ID since I was 16 years old. There was this kid, jesse, that went to my high school, that had graduated three or four years earlier than I had. I had just met him when I got into high school, but we had remained friends and we looked similar, and so I had gotten his ID very young and I was drinking legally in my eyes, you know, at all the bars and everywhere I wanted to, four years prior to even turning 21.

Sean King: 8:11

And then I graduated high school early, ended up going to college and then when I got to college, I mean, it was just game on from there. I'd already been drinking for years. I felt like I just, you know, fell right into the groove and the rest was history with that. You know, I still had what I call now. I still had drinking morals right Like I. I would only drink on, you know, weekend.

Sean King: 8:35

I wasn't a seven day a week drinker at that point, but I was hitting it hard. When I hit it, I'd say I was more of a binge drinker, you know. And then I progressed my program once I moved down to Southern California. Southern California is what really changed me and I didn't really start realizing I had an issue until I started like losing stuff and losing friendships mainly, you know, not losing like stuff, stuff, material stuff, but losing friendships mainly, you know, not not losing like stuff, stuff, material stuff, but losing friendships and people that just didn't want to be. You know, as I was in my mid to late 20s, that people just I could see people just kind of disappearing from, from you know my arena and then uh, and then you know it progressed from there no, that's great.

Steve Coughran: 9:09

And then let me let me have Steven jump in, because you know when, when I talked to, I talk to Steven about just the people he interacts with. There's always this love that comes through his messaging. And especially I know how highly Steven speaks of you and how much he just adores you as a friend. Steven, at what point in the relationship with Sean were you like, oh my gosh, I'm really concerned about him. He's going down a really bad path.

Steven Ginsburg: 9:36

It was really at the inception. Steve, thank you, and Sean, brother, I'm glad you're on. You know this is a. I think this is a full day for Sean because Sean was just with me at Restore for Group, which was absolutely awesome, and I think it's a good footnote also for the people who are experiencing the podcast. You know I have the blessing and privilege and honor of being Sean's sponsor in Alcoholics Anonymous, so that's a very special relationship and the sponsor often gets the better end of the deal and it's definitely case in point with Sean and mine's work together.

Steven Ginsburg: 10:07

But Sean, you know, professed and projected our history perfectly and down the road, when Sean's wife, who's a wonderful lady and who's also been to Restore as far as, visited Restore for group and all that good stuff and supported Sean there.

Steven Ginsburg: 10:22

When Maria reached out to me and said Sean needs help and I want him to be treated at Restore, that's when I knew Sean had a problem, because Sean and I really weren't in touch up to that point, and so it was really at the heart of the abyss when Sean's and mine's path crossed again, which is really apropos timing and and I want I want there to be a good light moment here.

Steven Ginsburg: 10:44

When Maria brought Sean up to her store the first time, steve, it was nighttime, it was late, it was dark and he's like, hey, man, she's not bringing me anywhere for treatment at some facility here in Bova, she's bringing me somewhere to kill me. I'm on some kind of mountain, it's pitch black, there's nobody here and I'm like, brother, hang tight. I've never ate in a bed as much as she wants to kill you. This lady loves you, she's trying to save you. And out came one of our leads and we got sean over at her store and the rest, as you'd say, is history. And from there the relationship progressed. Sean progressed on his silver journey and we've been together ever since.

Steve Coughran: 11:23

And I love that. And, Sean, you've been on both sides of the fence here Looking back on your journey, like when you first got help and let's just talk about like when you went to Restore for the first time and then you got the help and you healed and your life turned around. Do you ever look back and you're like, oh my gosh, I wish I would have done that so much sooner. And if you were talking to your old self, what would you say to them? Because I think a lot of parents and loved ones or people that are struggling with addiction it's easy to just say, okay, look, I'll go in for help after New Year's because I want to party with my friends. New Year's is coming up in a couple of months, so I'll just do that, or I'll do it after my birthday, or I mean there's always excuses or things that can delay us healing and getting help. What would you say to your younger self now that you have this hindsight?

Sean King: 12:16

Man. That's such a good question, Steve. It's great they get me thinking. My journey started in an area where I was having a very, very hard time telling myself I had an issue. Let me fast forward and answer that first question first. When I am in Restore now and I see all of the new people coming into community on a week by week basis and I've said this many times at different, various groups is that, you know, one of the parts that keeps me going back up. There is just how I love to go back in time to really see where I was and remember those feelings that I relive, that feeling I was having when I first got in as that wounded man that was just so far gone and never thought he was coming back and just so broken. And it's nice because I get to reset myself and I don't have to necessarily. You know what would I say to my old self? Say, listen up. I'd say listen up and open your eyes and be open-minded. Be open-minded is the big thing for me.

Steven Ginsburg: 13:13

I really wasn't.

Sean King: 13:14

Being open-minded to recovery and the program of Alcoholics Anonymous was not something in my scope. And it took me my own rock bottom to get to that point where I'd even opened my mind. And, truth be told, my first introduction to Alcoholics Anonymous was for DUI classes way back in 2009. And I didn't think twice about it. I knew I had an issue at that point because I was getting DUIs, but I didn't know anything about that product program, what it would do to me.

Sean King: 13:44

I was looking for all of the differences just to make sure that I knew that I didn't need that. And one big thing that's different is that when it was reintroduced to me first was from Steven at Restore and and, uh, you know I didn't take the ball and run with it right out of the gate. Um, with a, even at from Restore, I was poking around at it and and put my feelers out. And you know I still had that, that guard and that reserve, up to where I wasn't really open-minded enough to really take a look around and start building that toolkit that the fellowship gives you, that the program and membership of AA gives you, and now that's completely different. I often wonder what it would be like had I grasped this idea much sooner.

Steve Coughran: 14:32

Yeah, like how different would your life be. And you've been in group like Stephen alluded to. You're up there today, I've been there as well, and Steven often talks about five things. It's like the restore foundation and I'll I'll let Steven explain those things, but it's such as like okay, step one you're going to believe in a power greater than yourself. Number two you're going to find somebody with the working knowledge of the steps. Steven, maybe you could talk about these five things that you repeat over and over again as people seek out help and they're looking for healing, because I know we've talked like these five things are like core to you and this is how people get better. So maybe explain the five things first and then share your experience with Sean. What made Sean different? Because a lot of times people hear the steps you're talking about the steps all the time, but they refuse to do them.

Steven Ginsburg: 15:21

First of all, it's really nice to just sit and be listening right now and I'm very proud of Sean and I say that with the utmost humility, because he has just become an absolute student of sobriety and he's vested and committed and understands what it takes for him to continue a day at a time to have his remission. And you know the five things that have been so freely given to me, and I break them down to these five things. And sean and I have have some running jokes in our life. One of the running jokes in our life is well, that happens when we look at all the random acts of fate and the way that people are brought together. We always will sit there and look at each other and be like, yeah, that happens because there's something much greater than us at work behind everything that we experience and encounter. And the other aspect that we talk about a lot is my, my groups and steve, you've been to enough of my groups. Sean has been to so many of my groups as a community member and now as an alumni and as someone I sponsor in the program. My groups are all using as many different entrance avenues as possible to lead people to the same destination.

Steven Ginsburg: 16:23

And the destination is there's a core group of foundational pieces that are the working components of a 12-step program and in Alcoholics Anonymous and very simply, it's having the conception of a power greater than yourself, having an individual with working knowledge of the steps in your life. So, for instance, in Sean's life, I'm that individual with working knowledge of the steps, I'm his sponsor, he's my sponsee, coming together in community, coming together communally in community and meeting and going to meetings. And that diffuses our built-in forgetter, because Sean and I both suffer from a disease. That tells us that we don't have a disease and in those meetings we are reminded we do have a disease and we are being granted remission on a daily basis based on our footwork and our spiritual condition. And then we work the 12 steps.

Steven Ginsburg: 17:10

The program of Alcoholics Anonymous has 12 steps and then the 12 steps work us and work in our life. And then the last facet is we are of service and it's very easy to quantify. It rolls right off the tongue. They're not the most difficult things in the world to do. It's a very simple program and never to speak for Sean, but I speak for myself first and then others. Sean and I are complicated guys, but we work this simple program. Others Sean and I are complicated guys, but we work this simple program.

Steven Ginsburg: 17:38

And by working this simple program a day at a time and daily, we have ongoing sobriety and we continue to be relieved of the bondage of self. And when we don't work the program and when we don't commit to these simple things, we have an ongoing pattern of relapse. And Sean has been through that relapse pattern and I in my life have been through that relapse pattern and that's not what's happening with us today, but it is by design, it's not by accident, it's through the footwork and I'm very, very proud of Sean's footwork. No, I'm not objective because I sponsor him, but I also call it the way I see it because his life is hanging in the balance. But he is in surrender, he is in acceptance, he's empowered through the fact that he's won the fight by giving up that war and that battle and he continues to progress and he continues to have this great routine of ongoing sobriety. But it is based on his footwork and is based on the foundation of what we've been so freely given in Alcoholics Anonymous.

Steve Coughran: 18:31

I love that, I think that's beautiful and, Sean, you know we're almost out of time, but I do have a few more questions that I want to get through with you. So maybe just real quick, you can respond to that because, like I said, Steven's constantly saying hey, here are the five things, here's the foundation. If you want to stay sober, if you want to heal, if you want to recover, you have to do them. You skip step three, you relapse. You skip step two, you relapse. Maybe share a little bit from your experience with these five things. Was there a point in the beginning where, like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll do one, two and four, but the other ones are kind of dumb and I don't need to do it? I'm Sean, I'm a strong, vicious guy, I got it. Maybe speak a little bit about your perception on these five steps and what worked well for you and what didn't work, and what were the implications of all this.

Sean King: 19:21

Yeah, sure, you know I like to be a perfectionist with everything I do and everything you know. I want to win at everything I do. And I think when I first was given a run at the program, I just you know, because I've had a couple of relapses, and those relapses, when I went back and dissected them, they always came down to one of those five facets I was missing or I was neglecting on purpose, for whatever that reason may be. And until I put all five of those together I really wasn't able to string along any type of sobriety. I'd get a couple of days or weeks or maybe a month here or there.

Steve Coughran: 19:57

You're a smart guy, you know the steps right. What was going on in your head Get me in your head back when you said, screw it, I'm not going to do these or whatever? Was this? Was it like an unwillingness, or was it like a misbelief in the steps? Or was it just like so simple that you didn't think it would work? Or were you just like, hey, I'm going to self-sabotage, live my life however I want. Like what was going on in your head?

Sean King: 20:23

I think you hit one on the head. I think one of them was the self-sabotage but I also think that I always try to create shortcuts, some way to get it done more efficiently with less work. That in this program, it's a half measures of ill is nothing, and that couldn't be closer to the truth, and I tried that out. I tried the half measures, and each time I tried those half measures, I found, for whatever reason whether it be, you know, not going to my meetings as often as I was, or just stopping certain meetings altogether, not having a sponsor, which was probably one of my biggest malfunctions in the beginning of the program. I just didn't want to get a sponsor. I felt like I could do it myself, which, hindsight being 2020, that's an absolute no-no. There's no way I would stay sober a minute without a sponsor, you know.

Sean King: 21:10

So these are the types of things that I learned after going back and, like Steven says to me quite often, you know I needed proof of concept from others. I needed to go and see the program working in others, but also to hear the same things that I was hearing from Stephen and from other mentors around me, saying the same things and living the same things out and about at the different meetings and different places that I was just to really get that feeling that, yeah, this really does work. It couldn't have been more true that those five facets were the most important core things to have in place in my toolkit to have a successful stab at this thing called sobriety. The program is so far from complicated. We complicate it, and that's something I do with. Everything in my life is complicated and this is definitely not one of the things I haven't complicated or tried to. It's a simple program.

Steve Coughran: 22:04

So well, let me, let me ask you one last question. I'm going to turn it over to Steven to wrap it up. This has been great so far, but here's my question. You know, I come up to the house when I'm out in San Diego visiting and I see the people in the house and they just they look normal, like me, you and Steven. They're just normal people, good looking people. They're not like all crazy, scary monsters.

Steve Coughran: 22:26

It looks like somebody you just see at the grocery store, but then inside is this massive storm brewing and it's just full of like, whether it's self-hatred or just pain and sorrow and sadness. That's behind the facade that we all put on. And, trust me, I'm there. You could look at me and say, wow, steve looks so happy. Look at his smile, and then inside I'm terribly sad or depressed or whatever. So we all wear these metaphorical masks, maybe share a little bit just about that whole concept, because we all walk around with pain and if somebody's listening to this, they may either feel somebody is listening to this. They may either feel alone and isolated in this, like hey, something's wrong with me because I'm feeling this way, or maybe somebody is really struggling with a loved one who is battling drug and alcohol addiction and maybe they're losing hope. What do you have to say to the audience who's listening in, from somebody who's been there, who's been in the depths of hell but also has seen the bright light of recovery?

Sean King: 23:31

The one thing that I think is so very, very prevalent is that the idea that people have about an alcoholic or an addict you know and like I did and like what did that alcohol addict that I definitely wasn't and I did not want to be or associate with that I absolutely was was not what I had in my brain by any means about, like what you just said.

Sean King: 24:00

It's not a room full of crazies or whatever you think of when you think of alcoholic or drug addict. You know it was a room of normal people, it was a community of normal people and you know it's many times a lot farther inward than someone may be ready to talk about. I know there's a lot of things that I didn't want to express when I was in treatment, at the beginning, for sure, and as I opened up throughout the process, because the process is designed to open the people in the community up to different ideas and to be around people that are the same, you know, or similar in many ways, and just really understanding that, the open-minded, giving something else a shot, because I knew that what I was doing was not working in my life any longer and everything was coming to an end either health wise, family wise, whatever that may be.

Sean King: 24:56

And then just to open my mind and to say to myself listen, I mean, what's the harm of giving something a shot and taking a look and keeping an open mind about a program like Alcohol, of Synonymous or any of the other programs that are out there that you may be looking at and listening, really just giving it a shot? And I think one of the biggest things people run into man is that they just and I see it, you know, frustrates Stephen as well is that just, they don't ever give it a shot, they don't open the mind to give it a shot.

Sean King: 25:22

So many people that that would just give it one little inkling would really go a long way in terms of just learning what it's like to be sober and getting a quick minute to give yourself a real shot at life and sobriety.

Steve Coughran: 25:35

I love that. And, sean, yeah, it's great for you to come on. Thanks for being so vulnerable and so open about your story and just your journey, and you've made some incredible strides and I think it's amazing. I think you're such a wonderful man and you're a true inspiration for a lot of people because you've been there, you've done that and you're on your path to recovery every single day, so I'm so glad that you joined us on the show today. Steven, I'm going to have you wrap up because you have the best way to put a bow on all of this and just tie everything together.

Steven Ginsburg: 26:05

Thank you, Steve and Sean brother, great job. It's beautiful to hear you speak the truth and your truth and profess hope. And there is hope and there is a solution. And again, I'm just, I'm very proud of you. Sean's my friend, he's my brother in Christ. He's someone I sponsor in this fellowship.

Steven Ginsburg: 26:22

We suffer from the same disease and we know what ails us and he takes it really seriously and he is willing and wanting to be held accountable and I'm someone who takes it really seriously and I'm ever too happy to hold him accountable and it's through his footwork and it's through the footwork of the founders of this fellowship where people like Sean and myself are granted a remission, we're granted a reprieve and we don't end up dead and we don't end up in institutions. And without the solution and without the program, people like Sean and I end up dead and in institutions. Someone else ends up raising our kids, someone else ends up marrying our wives. The yets that are out there for Sean and I, they're not occurring in our lives today because we are working the reality of this program and the promises are coming true in our life. So I'd say, if you are out there and you are long suffering, you're out there you think it's hopeless. You're out there you think it's not for you.

Steven Ginsburg: 27:16

There's two gentlemen, specifically on this podcast who understand what the other side of that looks like, that it's about the similarities, not the differences. Understand what the other side of that looks like, that it's about the similarities, not the differences. And the disease is relentless in the pursuit of alcoholics and addicts who suffer from it. But the solution is relentless in defeating that disease, in its pursuit and provides hope and ongoing sobriety day to time. So we are here with you and for you in all things. I hope everyone from this point forward continues to have a blessed, safe and a sober day.