Steven Ginsburg: 0:00

I don't think for one second. I have another recovery left in me and I know for a fact. It is fatal and can and will kill me, and I need people to hold on to that reality about this powerful disease.

Steve Coughran: 0:10

This is the Addiction Recovery Podcast with Steven T Ginsburg, founder of Restore Detox Centers in sunny California. Enjoy your experience, Steven. I know you love your job and I know you're super passionate about saving people's lives, especially when it comes to saving people from drug and alcohol addiction. Let's talk about this phrase that you used last week when we were talking. It is right in the heat of the week. You're at Restore, you're doing group, you're like engaged in the community, like in the work, and you said to me, steve, this disease is cunning, baffling and powerful, and I like those three words that you used to describe the disease. I'm curious why you chose those three, so maybe we could jump into each of them, starting with cunning?

Steven Ginsburg: 0:59

Steve, absolutely, and I'm really glad we could step back and realize that this is some imperative information. The disease of alcoholism is an addiction. It's an opportunistic infection and when we look at a phrase like specifically cunning, when I think of cunning, I think of a predatory animal like a fox or an animal that hunts. It's got a very smart, well thought out, sneaky way of approaching or pursuing its prey, and we, the people in sobriety, are really the diseases prey. And what happens is we drift further and further away from the patterns and habits that create sobriety and the disease has a better and better angle of which to strike. And before we know it, without even seeing it coming, it's up on us and we ingest a mind altering substance of some sort and boom, we are off and running. That is the cunning aspect of addiction and alcoholism.

Steve Coughran: 2:05

When I like how you used the word sneaky to describe this, because I think that's spot on, especially from our conversations that we have. I mean, you constantly tell me look, when people stop working the program, they relapse, and so maybe you could talk a little bit more about that as it pertains to cunning, because I think you're right. People get complacent or they think, hey, look, you know, I've been sober for one, two, 10, 20 years and no longer do I have to go to group and do all these other things that are part of the program. I'm good Like, I'm strong, I'm healed, and maybe you could speak a little bit about that happy to that.

Steven Ginsburg: 2:42

Again. That cunning aspect, where it conveys its weight and its strength and power, is that what happens is everything that is delivering the better in our life. You know, work gets better, life gets better, love gets better, home gets better, our Relationships are placed in community get better, and the very thing that delivered the better, which is working our program. It, starts to get Negated and neglected and the disease, slowly but surely, it creeps in. It's not a Massive rush like a wave overtaking something or someone, it's just slowly but surely Thieves its way in. And you mentioned one of the footholds, which is complacency. You start drifting away from the patterns and habits that are creating the remission and that's where that cunning aspect Finds its foothold and makes its way in and, before you know it, that individual who's celebrating, participating in the recovery, are in relapse mode Interesting.

Steve Coughran: 3:44

Okay, let's move on to the next word baffling. What do you mean by baffling?

Steven Ginsburg: 3:49

I mean that it's.

Steven Ginsburg: 3:50

It's such a great connotation of how mysterious the approach is and what it is that specifically leads to that premeditated murder where we're the victim.

Steven Ginsburg: 4:02

It's just, it's almost spellbinding how Suddenly the person who is in recovery or in long-term recovery finds themselves back at the bar or picking up a Drug.

Steven Ginsburg: 4:16

All of a sudden they are back in relapse mode and it's they can't even isolate the exact Incident necessarily that drove them to it and what they come to find out. When we're able to actually step back and Rearrest the condition meaning we've got them back into a sober mindset they start to realize the baffling aspect. Steve starts to be like, hey, it wasn't necessarily that something happened at work, it wasn't necessarily that something occurred in my family, it wasn't necessarily the relationship that ended, it was the facets of my program that I wasn't engaging in any longer that, coupled with the event anyone or more that could be described Suddenly had me back where I came to and I realized I was back drinking. I came to and I was back drugging. It's almost like the snap of a fingers, it's almost like a jolt Happens and suddenly they're like how did this happen again? And that's the baffling aspect of this terrible disease which, again, I like that were disease, the dis ease of what occurs when we relapse, hmm.

Steve Coughran: 5:29

I love that and in what's baffling to me is, you know, when I come up to the house, when I come up to the house to group, you know, and I meet these individuals, they're normal-looking people, not that I think otherwise or not that I expected them to be some like three eyed monster or something, but they're the football star of their high school team or their and successful entrepreneur or executive or mother of four, and they look just like you and me, right, and you would never be able to point them out on the street. And I think that's the part of the cunning side of it too, where it's like so sneaky and like dark and hidden. And when you're engaged in Drinking or doing drugs, you're like hiding it and you're like shrinking and doing it in the shadows of life. And that's what's baffling to me.

Steve Coughran: 6:17

These people with great futures, like strong attributes and all these talents and gifts, succumb to this disease that just destroys them, right, and even when they get sober I mean you got to think that. I mean you've, you've been down this path, steven you get sober, so you relapse after you got sober. That let's talk about that for a minute. How old were you when you first got sober 19 years old. 19 years old. So I'm sure after you got sober in a few years into it, you probably look back and thought, oh my gosh, I would never want to go back to that place. I mean, is that true?

Steven Ginsburg: 6:52

100%, one billion percent, and I was really Much like what you see at restore, Steve. I was very well prepared and very aligned with what it was gonna take, what it was about what recovery was gonna look and feel like, and I was working a full program and I truly had those thoughts. I was like I am never going back, I know what to do, I'm gonna do it a day at a time. And I worked my program and what happened was the very things you and I have just been discussing.

Steven Ginsburg: 7:22

My life started to come Full circle. There was success in my life, there were material things in my life, there were results in my life, and I started to neglect and negate the very elements that gave me those things, which was a power greater than myself and working a program. And then what happened? After 12 years 12 years, not 12 weeks, at 12 days, not 12 months after 12 years of uninterrupted sobriety, I relapsed and I was back out there for four and a half years and it should have killed me. I was spared for one reason I was spared for this work, but it's crazy to me.

Steve Coughran: 7:58

I mean, you look back and where you were after you got sober you're a good-looking guy, you're successful, you're smart, you're great at business, you had all these things going for you and then it's like what the heck? You know how does that happen? And to your point, I mean, that's the whole baffling side of it, right.

Steven Ginsburg: 8:15

Mm-hmm, absolutely. I suffer from a disease that, on a daily basis, is extremely busy. Telling me that I don't have a disease, yeah, I don't need recovery, that I don't need the tools of recovery, I don't need the footwork or recovery, and that is a battle. And and it's so great having you alongside of me and Really plugged in the process because you can really relate and understand what I get fired up and convicted about. I Borderline, beg, I implore people, we must and I'm part of the we, which is good, it's not you guys and then me telling you, it's all of us.

Steven Ginsburg: 8:48

We must work our program when daily, a day at a time, and just make it through the day, this disease Must be put into a state of remission through the fork on a daily basis. I'm not going to get well, I am getting well. I am not going to be recovered. I am recovering, but it's going to take my ongoing footwork on a daily basis. And I say this a bunch and I'll keep saying it to the day I'm no longer here. That's not bad news, that is good news. There are daily actions I do to continue to have my remission based on my spiritual condition.

Steve Coughran: 9:24

I love that and I love how you added, like the ing at the end of the words, to you know, to demonstrate that it's an ongoing process. It's not like it's just a little event and you recover and you're healed and you never have to worry about it Again. It's, it's this ongoing thing, 100% Okay. Let's move on to powerful. Like, obviously, the disease is powerful. I mean, we see it destroy so many good people's lives all around the world every single day. So talk to me about powerful, and what do you mean by that term?

Steven Ginsburg: 9:53

It's so powerful it's. It's powerful enough to serve up incomprehensible demoralization. It's powerful enough, I to, despite a period of great remission, people who have been off of drugs or alcohol for years and years and years. The disease is so powerful that if you ingest a mind-altering substance, it immediately is progressive in nature, you immediately escalate to a place where you were worse than you were before.

Steven Ginsburg: 10:20

It's powerful enough that during some of the most important events or highlights of an individual's life, that sobriety is delivering, that it will come in rear its ugly head and decimate and destroy everything in its path. It is just, you know, like look up the word powerful, it is the embodiment of that word. It is like it is a force of nature and it is a dark force of nature that just leaves nothing but destruction in its path. And we've got to pay homage and be respectful and mindful and, like God, fearing and disease, fearing of the power, of the magnitude of addiction and alcoholism, and realize we are playing with fire. You know, steve, I've got another relapse left in me. I do, I don't think for one second. I have another recovery left in me and I know for a fact it is fatal and can and will kill me and I need people to hold on to that reality about this powerful disease.

Steve Coughran: 11:16

Yeah, no, very well said and I like how you describe that and it makes me think of like being out in the ocean. You know I'm not a big, like boat person.

Steve Coughran: 11:26

But you know, there have been times where I've been out far, far away from land and sure I could swim, and not like the best swimmer in the world, but I'm out in the middle of the ocean, the waves start getting bigger and bigger and you know, the sea turns and you just realize in that moment like oh my gosh, life is so fragile and this can easily just kill me out here. It can destroy the boat, sink the boat and you're like out in the middle of nowhere and you're gone, or like even skydiving I've been skydiving all over the world and when you're up in that plane and you're about to jump out, you think, wow, you know, life is so fragile and I could just, you know, jump out of this plane and so many things could go wrong. And the elements are so powerful and I think the same thing is true with the disease is that it is so powerful it could kill you, I mean, and it will kill you eventually, right?

Steven Ginsburg: 12:14

1000 percent, a billion percent, and it's a terrific analogy you're using, and and that again, those analogies with nature, great examples, because again it's, it's really a supernatural force of darkness that just is bigger than any of us. But we have the ability, when you've got this thing locked up as it should be, and when you've got your program going in full force, and when you have set yourself up through a series of actions to win the day and that's all we're talking about for ongoing recovery, steve, setting yourself up to win the day. And if you need to break it down to like when, an hour of the day or a minute of the day, you can do that. When you've got that in check and you're doing your part, this massive, brutal, violent force of nature is kept where, where it should be locked, behind the gate, the enemies of the gate. But we must not relent, because the gate gets unlocked and that force comes back Full and ready for retribution and it demands a greater toll. Only let it back in.

Steve Coughran: 13:24

I love it and I love your choice of words, Steven. You know cunning, baffling and powerful. I think you describe it so well. And, for all those of you who are listening, if you want to tap into the resources that we have available for you for free, go to restore detox centers dot com. There's a ton of stuff there. Check out the other episodes. Please be sure to share this with your friends and your loved ones so we can get the word out there, because obviously we are very passionate about this topic and we want to be able to help as many people as possible. So, Steven, it's been a pleasure being on this episode with you today.

Steven Ginsburg: 13:56

Thank you. Thank you for being part of the solution. If you are out there and you have questions, you have trials and tribulations, you have loved ones who are suffering, we are truly here with you and for you and I implore you and ask you, respectfully get help, find help for the ones you love, and understand that the solution is real and there's hope for all of us, a day at a time. The solution is real and there's hope for all of us, a day at a time.