Steven Ginsburg: 0:00

When there's inconsistency, when there's a lack of communication, those things are glaring and they actually have people fall backwards rather than progress forward.

Steve Coughran: 0:10

This is the Addiction Recovery Podcast with Steven T Ginsburg, founder of Restore Detox Centers in sunny California.

Steve Coughran: 0:17

Enjoy your experience.

Steve Coughran: 0:24

Steven the other week I really enjoyed our conversation when we're talking about safeguards and whether they make us weak and actually they don't make us weak, they empower us in so many different ways.

Steve Coughran: 0:34

And I love how you're sharing your story about your recovery from your sports hernia and you had drugs prescribed by the doctor and you're like, look, I'm going to put a safeguard in place with my wife. I'm going to say, hey, you're the police by the doctor and you're like, look, I'm going to put a safeguard in place with my wife. I'm going to say, hey, you're the police of these medications and I want you to watch over these and just shell them out to me as needed. And even though you've been sober for a long time, you could easily said, look, I can handle other prescription drugs, I'm just going to follow what the doctor said and I'm good. So I really liked your conversation about safeguards. I want to build on this topic and talk about boundaries, because I think they relate in some way, and I also know that you're really good with setting boundaries and communicating boundaries when you're working with people at Restore, so I want to turn the time over to you and hear what's on your heart as it relates to this topic.

Steven Ginsburg: 1:22

Steve, thank you Just a really imperative and hear what's on your heart as it relates to this topic. Steve, thank you, Just a really imperative, important subject.

Steven Ginsburg: 1:27

And a subject that has a lot of generalities assigned to it because of the word, but where the actual execution of the word is concerned it gets very specific. So I want to tackle two ends, but I won't leave out the part you had just mentioned. For the family of origin that has the person in their life that is suffering, boundaries become that first critical component where they are not enabling the disease, they're enabling and starting to enable healing and recovery by literally having boundaries around what is asked for, what's provided, the conditions that come along with that, what's expected where people in recovery's part is concerned. That's a critical area and that takes practice because there have been many times where there have been no boundaries in place at all. On the other side of it, when it comes for the individual that is in the recovery and in their recovery and recovering, there becomes a new normal where they have to have boundaries amongst the people that they love or amongst a spouse or siblings or even contemporaries or coworkers, and their boundaries have to be the understanding that literally the thing that will come first and foremost is what is expected and needed for the path of recovery to continue and there's boundaries to what would be able to yield or come in the way of any of that progress, and we always strive for progress, not perfection. So it's an equal, opportunistic word and imperative. Thing that gets carried out, but it hits both ends of the spectrum. Thing that gets carried out, but it hits both ends of the spectrum.

Steven Ginsburg: 3:06

Footnote on my long diatribe when it comes to restore, when it comes to team members of restore, or it even comes to community retreating and restore, I do humbly take pride on being accessible. But one of the areas where I've had growth, especially this year, is I've realized how important it is for me to delegate, and part of that has been like even a boundary I set this year. It's where I practice it, steve making sure team members follow the org chart, making sure that community members we're treating understand their points of contact on site at Restore are thus and so forth, and then they can move it up to me or contact me or they don't need me at all. So again, long answer, but a great topic because so much comes into play where it's all concerned.

Steve Coughran: 3:49

Okay. So what do you think are the components of a really good boundary? Because I think oftentimes with my kids let's just say we're out and about on a Saturday and they start doing something naughty, right, or they're annoying each other or poking at each other and I'm like, oh my gosh, guys, if you don't stop right, I'm taking away the iPad. And then I'm like, oh my gosh, guys, if you don't stop, right, I'm taking away the iPad. And then I'm like, okay, that was a little extreme, I'm not going to take away the iPad, I'm not going to sell it. I just said that in the moment.

Steve Coughran: 4:14

And I think, when it comes to boundaries, think about somebody with addiction problems. I mean, they may be wreaking havoc in somebody's home or life or whatever. And so how do you set boundaries where the other person's going to take you serious enough, but also, like, where you're not setting boundaries that are so harsh, where you're going back on your word? Does that make sense? Cause you don't want to be like, okay, one more time and we're done. We're done, I'm cutting you off. You're no longer, you know, going to be considered my daughter, right, right, it's the extreme side. So what do you think are the key ingredients of a strong boundary.

Steven Ginsburg: 4:49

You described them so, kudos. There's got to be clarity, there's got to be communication, there's got to be consistency. Those elements really become those cornerstones of them being in place. It's got to be clearly communicated, it's got to be expressed appropriately and properly, and then it's got to be consistent, as it's got to be expressed appropriately and properly, and then it's got to be consistent as far as what is the cause and effect when that's in place. Steve, these things really exist. They're not subjective, they're not hopeful, they're not hypothetical. The boundary has been put in place through those actions that are described and prescribed. When there's inconsistency, when there's a lack of communication, those things are glaring and they actually have people fall backwards rather than progress forward.

Steve Coughran: 5:38

Interesting. Okay, so how many groups do you do a week? Steven at Restore.

Steven Ginsburg: 5:43

I have the blessing and privilege of holding three groups a week at Restore, which I love.

Steve Coughran: 5:48

Which is a lot. You love it. I mean, you're great at it. I've sat in a lot of your groups and you're just amazing. So you do these groups. I've also been with you where you're taking calls at all different hours of the day because you care so much about the people in the community. And I'm sure during group and in your other conversations elsewhere, this conversation of boundaries comes up over and over again, whether it's with family members, whether it's with your employees at Restore or whatever. Can you give some examples of maybe some boundaries that you find yourself repeating over and over again to people where you're like okay, you have to set this. Are there any common themes that you're seeing here or any patterns that you can share specifically? I can barely make free to finish.

Steven Ginsburg: 6:34

I can't wait to tell you yes, yes, so absolutely. I'm passionate about this subject. I just had one yesterday. I was there with a community member. I was talking to his mom and I asked her a question and the answer to you know, how old is this individual in your family? She told me the answer.

Steven Ginsburg: 6:50

I said you've got to allow him to grow up, you've got to stop enabling the behavior, you've got to stop micromanaging the behavior. You've got to allow him to have the opportunity to work his program, to do his part, to do the footwork, and you've got to get out of the way. And no one not you, not me, not anyone can make him do those things. But we have the responsibility. We are called to clear ourself from the path and be like hey, you've been shown the path, get on it and go. If you get in the way, you're going to hold him back. If you stay out of the way, you will not impede his progress.

Steven Ginsburg: 7:26

That's a boundary I am consistently giving and, by the way, that's not just solely assigned to parents. Steve, that's a conversation I'll have a lot with spouses. That's a conversation I'd have a lot with a life partner. That's a conversation I'd have often with siblings or family members. We are able to set the course, we can give good, orderly direction my favorite acronym for God but then we get out of the way and when they understand the information it's onto the footwork. You go and we sat there and watch and we can cheerlead, but we can't do it for them.

Steve Coughran: 7:58

Now, what happens if somebody breaks a boundary? Let's talk about for the first time, and then we'll talk about like a repeat offender.

Steven Ginsburg: 8:05

Yep, I don't believe in shooting our wounded Again. You're touching on things that have been talking points recently, but it's all part of the day to day, which I'm blessed to be participating in. I conveyed to someone I know this looks like an obstacle, but I believe really what we're looking at is an opportunity, because the boundary was broken and so you dive into it. What happened? Why did it happen? Where did things break down? How do we course correct? And then what's next? How do we keep this being a repetitive pattern? I think when you go into that realm great, and you've got an area of opportunity and there's a call for grace I think if it becomes habitual and you see there's no regard for the course correction or the good, orderly direction, that's where you start to get into that consequence mode, if you would, where you start to get into that mode where you're like, hey, because of this, from now on things are going to be like that and you hold, you hold firm.

Steve Coughran: 9:00

Yeah, cause I imagine you know that that comes up quite a bit where people that are in recovery. I mean, oftentimes they're a mess, just like everybody else. I'm a mess, You're a mess, but you know we can make promises we don't follow through, and you know it could cause a lot of pain, a lot of hurt, especially if there's not boundaries, and I mean that took me a long time to discover in my life and I'm still working on boundaries, because oftentimes, well, you know, but dah, dah, dah, and there's always like a good reason why we shouldn't have you know.

Steven Ginsburg: 9:33

I don't know, you know, to put a bow on it. I think it's imperative, Steve, that our actions and words match all of us. And again I'll repraise something you and I had just touched on. I think you've got to have that communication. Things have to be made clearly and conveyed clearly to the individuals in question, and then we've got to have that consistency. I think that helps us all. We all have this. We have boundaries with our spouse. We have boundaries with our children. You and I have boundaries with one another. They're healthy, and some of them are unspoken. They're understood. Without them, there's no order. There're healthy, and some of them are unspoken. They're understood. Without them, there's no order, there's chaos, and with them there's a great call to order and then there's better results and better solutions for everybody.

Steve Coughran: 10:17

Yeah, absolutely agree. All right, If you're listening to this and you want to share with us what boundaries have you put in place, what works well, what hasn't worked well, we'd love to hear from you. You can always email us at hello at restore detox centerscom. Also, you can go to our website If you want to learn more about what we're up to in. That address is wwwrestoredetoxcenterscom, so be sure to check out the website. There are also a lot of other helpful resources there that you can find as well. Steven, always great chatting with you. I really appreciate your insights and just sharing your experience with the group because for me, hey, boundaries is something I need to work on and continue to work on, and I appreciate your expertise.

Steven Ginsburg: 11:00

Amen Day at a time. Thank you for bringing the subject matter to the table. I hope everyone has a safe and sober day and know that we are here with you and for you, and all Thanks.